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Thoughts on "dub-con" as a fanfic kink
This is a response to ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
thefrogg's post about consent issues in fanfic and to theladyscribe's response in which she describes one of her own fics as possibly "dub-con" (Dubious consent).
This is a touchy subject. Here's where I have to insert my standard feminist disclaimer: I am not discussing real life. I'm discussing fanfic, and specifically sexual-fantasy fanfic. In real life, there's no such thing as "dubious consent". In real life, either informed consent exists, or it's rape. Please don't think I can't make that distinction between fiction, fantasy and reality.
In fanfic, we're not dealing with the real world. In putting warnings on fanfic, we must acknowledge real-world issues, because (hello!) our readers are real people. If we don't acknowledge that real-world issues affect them, then the warning is pointless. So I seethefrogg's point, that a story where consent is less than explicit might be triggering for some readers.
The second part of this issue is the ages-old argument about the reasons for warnings/info and suchlike. Without reiterating the arguments here, the result is, broadly speaking, two camps of "warn-ers". One camp who warn "responsibly" i.e. who conscientiously include warnings for everything contained within a fic, and another camp who regard warnings as optional and might fail to warn if, for example, the "warning" might also be a spoiler.
For the reader, particularly the reader who wishes to avoid certain kinds of fic, this presents a dilemma. I want to be able to say oftheladyscribe's story "since there was no warning for non-con or dub-con, clearly the sex was intended to be consensal." To me, this is self-evident. In the story, Jess wakes up to find Dean touching her; they go on to have sex. In canon Dean can be a misogynist pig, but I don't see him as a man who goes where he's not wanted; so it wouldn't occur to me to think of the scenario as non-consensual. Dean wouldn't have done it if he didn't have reason to believe she would consent.
Unfortunately, every fanfic author who fails to warn for a rape scene in a fic makes a liar out of me on that presumption.
This is a pain in the ass. Because for me, dub-con is my second biggest fanfic kink. *points to standard feminist disclaimer above* And one of my biggest pet peeves is fics labelled "Dub-con" when they're really, really not.
There's an obvious conflict here betwen "dub-con" as a warning of potentially triggering material, and "dub-con" as a kink. If all it takes to make a story dub-con is the absence of a "yes", then my kink is doomed to frustration. I think there's an argument for presuming consent in fanfic, because we presume an awful lot of things in fanfic. Characterisation is based not solely on the story text, but on what the fanfic author expects the reader to know about the characters. When I wrote Ceremony of Innocence which ends with Sam leaving Dean and getting on a plane, I expected the reader to be aware that Dean's afraid of flying, that Sam knows Dean's afraid of flying and therefore Sam's choice of transport should mean something more than just it's the quickest way to get to California. Similarly, if I write - or read - a PWP, I presume the sex is consensual unless something (including the warnings on the fic) suggests otherwise. That's assuming the characters involved aren't canonically disposed to rape...but if they were I don't think I'd be reading about them.
Actual dub-con (and here I'm talking about dub-con-as-kink) is very hard to write. It's not something written "by mistake". All too often, fics labelled as "dub-con" are not "dubuious" at all: it's a label for consensual sex with some BDSM elements or for rape fic in which the victim experiences orgasm. These are not dub-con.
True dub-con rides the razor's edge of consent. It's the scenario in which consent is given, but not freely. It's the scenario in which the person wants it, really wants it, but is contrained to say no for social or political or emotional reasons. It's the fuck-or-die scenario which forces a couple not ready for it into a sexual relationship. It's the "sex-pollen" scenario where they don't realise there's an outside force acting on them.
I'm going to give examples from my own fic, not to show off my stories, but because only on my own fic can I speak with authority about the intent behind the words. Whether the intent carries through to the final result is for others to judge. For the sake of clarity, both of these are Supernatural fics featuring incest.
My own Restrain, Release (Sam/Dean) is not dub-con, because although Sam took advantage of Dean being drugged/drunk and Dean didn't specifically consent to sex on that night, the boys had discussed it beforehand and Dean's consent is implied because he has a safeword and chooses not to use it.
My story In Vino Veritas (John/Dean) is dub-con because although Dean gives consent, actively participates in the sex and has an orgasm, he has very conflicted feelings about sex with John and (although this is not specified in the story) he's fifteen years old; legally and morally too young to consent.
(For some readers the age issue and father/son power dynamic will shift the above story from dub-con to non-con; that's fine. Everyone's mileage differs a little and I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me on this. That's kind of the point. True dub-con should seem like non-con to some readers.)
For me, a dub-con scenario has two essential elements. First that the dominant partner in the sex has no reason, within the scene itself, to think the sex is non-consensual. In my John/Dean example, you can argue that John should have no reason to presume consent from Dean (and you'd be right!) But within the scene itself, Dean voluntarily gets into bed with John.
Similarly in "sex pollen" and "fuck-or-die" scenarios, the participants generally do consent to the sex within the actual scene. Whether that consent can be considered genuine depends on the wider context: did a relationship exist between them prior to the incident? Would these two people ever have slept together if some outside force hadn't interfered? If there was a pre-existing attraction, were there other things keeping them apart and what's the likelihood that they would have overcome those things on their own?
The second essential element in dub-con is this: if you were hypothetically able to ask the non-dominant partner (or both of them for a sex-pollen story where both were equally affected), after the event, whether or not there was consent he or she would answer either "yes" or "I don't know". That "yes" may be self-deception, but he or she must believe it.
There's another dub-con scenario, one which I've almost never seen in fanfic: the scenario where one partner genuinely has no idea that the other isn't freely consenting to the sex. Most slave!fic could take that line, as a slave, by definition is not free to refuse a master, but I've rarely seen a fic that handles it well. Admittedly, I've read a lot less of that genre in the past few years, but the general line in slave!fic seems to be either a) they're in love, so the consent issues inherent in the master/slave relationship are ignored, or b) it's rape or non-con, or presumed consensual in the same way prostitution is "consensual".
I would really love to see a slave!fic in which a loving master is genuinely shocked when his slave, given the capacity to consent, turns around and says "no, I'm leaving". But I guess that wouldn't suit the slashy need for a happy ending.
thefrogg's post about consent issues in fanfic and to theladyscribe's response in which she describes one of her own fics as possibly "dub-con" (Dubious consent). This is a touchy subject. Here's where I have to insert my standard feminist disclaimer: I am not discussing real life. I'm discussing fanfic, and specifically sexual-fantasy fanfic. In real life, there's no such thing as "dubious consent". In real life, either informed consent exists, or it's rape. Please don't think I can't make that distinction between fiction, fantasy and reality.
In fanfic, we're not dealing with the real world. In putting warnings on fanfic, we must acknowledge real-world issues, because (hello!) our readers are real people. If we don't acknowledge that real-world issues affect them, then the warning is pointless. So I see
thefrogg's point, that a story where consent is less than explicit might be triggering for some readers. The second part of this issue is the ages-old argument about the reasons for warnings/info and suchlike. Without reiterating the arguments here, the result is, broadly speaking, two camps of "warn-ers". One camp who warn "responsibly" i.e. who conscientiously include warnings for everything contained within a fic, and another camp who regard warnings as optional and might fail to warn if, for example, the "warning" might also be a spoiler.
For the reader, particularly the reader who wishes to avoid certain kinds of fic, this presents a dilemma. I want to be able to say of
theladyscribe's story "since there was no warning for non-con or dub-con, clearly the sex was intended to be consensal." To me, this is self-evident. In the story, Jess wakes up to find Dean touching her; they go on to have sex. In canon Dean can be a misogynist pig, but I don't see him as a man who goes where he's not wanted; so it wouldn't occur to me to think of the scenario as non-consensual. Dean wouldn't have done it if he didn't have reason to believe she would consent. Unfortunately, every fanfic author who fails to warn for a rape scene in a fic makes a liar out of me on that presumption.
This is a pain in the ass. Because for me, dub-con is my second biggest fanfic kink. *points to standard feminist disclaimer above* And one of my biggest pet peeves is fics labelled "Dub-con" when they're really, really not.
There's an obvious conflict here betwen "dub-con" as a warning of potentially triggering material, and "dub-con" as a kink. If all it takes to make a story dub-con is the absence of a "yes", then my kink is doomed to frustration. I think there's an argument for presuming consent in fanfic, because we presume an awful lot of things in fanfic. Characterisation is based not solely on the story text, but on what the fanfic author expects the reader to know about the characters. When I wrote Ceremony of Innocence which ends with Sam leaving Dean and getting on a plane, I expected the reader to be aware that Dean's afraid of flying, that Sam knows Dean's afraid of flying and therefore Sam's choice of transport should mean something more than just it's the quickest way to get to California. Similarly, if I write - or read - a PWP, I presume the sex is consensual unless something (including the warnings on the fic) suggests otherwise. That's assuming the characters involved aren't canonically disposed to rape...but if they were I don't think I'd be reading about them.
Actual dub-con (and here I'm talking about dub-con-as-kink) is very hard to write. It's not something written "by mistake". All too often, fics labelled as "dub-con" are not "dubuious" at all: it's a label for consensual sex with some BDSM elements or for rape fic in which the victim experiences orgasm. These are not dub-con.
True dub-con rides the razor's edge of consent. It's the scenario in which consent is given, but not freely. It's the scenario in which the person wants it, really wants it, but is contrained to say no for social or political or emotional reasons. It's the fuck-or-die scenario which forces a couple not ready for it into a sexual relationship. It's the "sex-pollen" scenario where they don't realise there's an outside force acting on them.
I'm going to give examples from my own fic, not to show off my stories, but because only on my own fic can I speak with authority about the intent behind the words. Whether the intent carries through to the final result is for others to judge. For the sake of clarity, both of these are Supernatural fics featuring incest.
My own Restrain, Release (Sam/Dean) is not dub-con, because although Sam took advantage of Dean being drugged/drunk and Dean didn't specifically consent to sex on that night, the boys had discussed it beforehand and Dean's consent is implied because he has a safeword and chooses not to use it.
Dean shivered, and this time not because of the cold. Sam's casual tone unnerved him a little, as did the fact that he'd apparently slept through being stripped, bound and gagged. That just wasn't possible.
"Good boy," Sam said softly, in the same tone he would have used talking to a dog. "Now, listen carefully, Dean. There are three rules. One: you will obey every order I give you, at once, no arguments. That shouldn't be too difficult; I know how you love to take orders."
Fuck you! Dean thought, but he made no sound. He could almost remember... They went to a club last night, one of those places with live music and... But the memory danced out of reach.
"Two," Sam went on relentlessly. "You may not talk without permission. Three: you may not come without permission." Sam blew gently on Dean's chest, across his nipples; to Dean Sam's breath felt hotter than it should have. "Do you understand the rules, Dean? Make noise for yes."
Dean grunted past the cloth in his mouth.
"Good boy," Sam said again. Dean half-expected him to pat his head. "Do you remember your safe-word?"
For a moment, Dean had no idea what he meant, because he couldn't remember them planning anything like this. Then the memory came back to him, a conversation they'd had weeks before. Dean had told Sam that fancy safe-words were dumb and you should just say stop.
My story In Vino Veritas (John/Dean) is dub-con because although Dean gives consent, actively participates in the sex and has an orgasm, he has very conflicted feelings about sex with John and (although this is not specified in the story) he's fifteen years old; legally and morally too young to consent.
John's hand gripped Dean's forearm, preventing him from leaving. "Dean, wait. I ain't so drunk as that."
"Bullshit. You can't even stand."
John's grip on his arm tightened. Dean met his hooded eyes, trying to understand. John looked like he wanted to say something, but no words came.
But Dean understood. His father needed him.
Dean swallowed past the tightness in his throat, and nodded slowly. "It's okay, Dad." He withdrew his arm from John's grip and stripped off his t-shirt. He stood and unzipped his pants. Please god don't let Sammy wake up... Dean removed his underpants and socks, leaving everything in a heap on the floor. He straightened and stood, naked, before his father.
John gazed at him for a moment, long enough for Dean to squirm under the scrutiny. Without speaking, John pushed back the blanket. Dean, shivering in the cold, lay down beside him.
(For some readers the age issue and father/son power dynamic will shift the above story from dub-con to non-con; that's fine. Everyone's mileage differs a little and I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me on this. That's kind of the point. True dub-con should seem like non-con to some readers.)
For me, a dub-con scenario has two essential elements. First that the dominant partner in the sex has no reason, within the scene itself, to think the sex is non-consensual. In my John/Dean example, you can argue that John should have no reason to presume consent from Dean (and you'd be right!) But within the scene itself, Dean voluntarily gets into bed with John.
Similarly in "sex pollen" and "fuck-or-die" scenarios, the participants generally do consent to the sex within the actual scene. Whether that consent can be considered genuine depends on the wider context: did a relationship exist between them prior to the incident? Would these two people ever have slept together if some outside force hadn't interfered? If there was a pre-existing attraction, were there other things keeping them apart and what's the likelihood that they would have overcome those things on their own?
The second essential element in dub-con is this: if you were hypothetically able to ask the non-dominant partner (or both of them for a sex-pollen story where both were equally affected), after the event, whether or not there was consent he or she would answer either "yes" or "I don't know". That "yes" may be self-deception, but he or she must believe it.
There's another dub-con scenario, one which I've almost never seen in fanfic: the scenario where one partner genuinely has no idea that the other isn't freely consenting to the sex. Most slave!fic could take that line, as a slave, by definition is not free to refuse a master, but I've rarely seen a fic that handles it well. Admittedly, I've read a lot less of that genre in the past few years, but the general line in slave!fic seems to be either a) they're in love, so the consent issues inherent in the master/slave relationship are ignored, or b) it's rape or non-con, or presumed consensual in the same way prostitution is "consensual".
I would really love to see a slave!fic in which a loving master is genuinely shocked when his slave, given the capacity to consent, turns around and says "no, I'm leaving". But I guess that wouldn't suit the slashy need for a happy ending.
no subject
One of my favorite characters is incredibly susceptible to this (and I've alluded to it in his past a few times in fic, as have a couple of other writers, though I can't think of any extended treatments).
He has this very fundamentalist conception of sex and power and gender roles, which leads to his belief that women and/or subordinates shouldn't be allowed to say no to him, sexually or otherwise. (This has led to harassment lawsuits in canon.) Turn that around and put him with a man he looks up to, however, and he thinks he isn't allowed to turn anything down.
...and, man, I wish there were more fic going into that, because I do like to watch him cry. (Your fiction-is-not-reality disclaimer is in full force here, mind you.)
I would really love to see a slave!fic in which a loving master is genuinely shocked when his slave, given the capacity to consent, turns around and says "no, I'm leaving".
I think I heard a song like that once.
But I guess that wouldn't suit the slashy need for a happy ending.
I can see that. Hm. Maybe if the slave were then paired up with someone else? (I've never written slave!fic anyway, though, so I'm a little out of my depth here.)
Very interesting thoughts; thanks for typing them up!
no subject
He has this very fundamentalist conception of sex and power and gender roles, which leads to his belief that women and/or subordinates shouldn't be allowed to say no to him, sexually or otherwise. (This has led to harassment lawsuits in canon.) Turn that around and put him with a man he looks up to, however, and he thinks he isn't allowed to turn anything down.
Which character is this, and can you reccommend any fics that include that premise, if you don't mind?
no subject
Some of this has come up during canon: there's a sexual experience referred to here (I actually made a mix for that pairing, over here), and he gets ordered around live on-air here (the actual action doesn't get very sexy, but the dialogue - "You can call me Sir!" - is all about the power exchange).
In terms of fiction, the best example I can think of is Running, and even that takes place after the dub-con, when our sensitive and understanding hero comes to his rescue. There's a remix challenge going on in that community right now, though, so I'm totally doing a version of that story which goes into the backstory more. (If I may toot my own horn a bit more, the issue also comes up in my very long State of Grace, although there again it's mostly about him getting over it and coming out with a healthier worldview.)
There are also a bunch of locked D/s stories in
. . . not a very impressive link list, I know. We've got huge variety for a tiny fandom, but we really need to step up to the plate re: the incredible dub-con opportunities here.
no subject
It depends on how well the people are writen, how interesting they are and partly on whether I've ever heard of them myself. But those links sound interesting, and I'll check them out. Thank you for linking to them, and I personally have no problems at all with you tooting your own horn.