briarwood | Fly-by rec

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I mean, I don't as a rule have characters declare their sexuality.

I think that's normal. We would naturally assume that, whichever gender a person is attracted to now, that's the gender the person will always be attracted to. And we'll hold that assumption until something happens to show us that we're in error.

Unless you want your two men to be kissing, and one thinks, Ya' know, I love this guy, but if he wasn't here, I could love a gal just as much. That would go over like a lead balloon -- not least because, when two characters are wrapped up in each other, it would be rather unrealistic for them to be considering other possibilities at the same time.

In the final analysis, I'm not sure it matters. Character A is with Character B at this time. I don't care if he's gay, bi, or straight -- just, what's he doing now, and who's he doing it with? *g*
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In the final analysis, I'm not sure it matters. Character A is with Character B at this time. I don't care if he's gay, bi, or straight -- just, what's he doing now, and who's he doing it with?

It matters a great deal to me as a writer. I put a lot of thought into it sometimes, what does the canon say, how can I make it realistic and in-character?

That matters to the reader on the unconscious level because, well, folks do appreciate decent characterisation. It's the difference between Harlequin and gritty realism.

Whether it matters beyond that...well, that's up to the individual. I don't like to see the issue dismissed, though. Invisibility is a big problem for bisexual people. There are still a lot of folks out there who don't believe bisexuality exists at all. So maybe it doesn't matter purely in fanfiction terms but I hope everything we write has at least a little significance beyond that.

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My apologies for being flip. As a straight woman, I honestly don't care if a male or female is straight, gay, or bi, and I approach my reading the same way. I admit I'm a bit curious about how bi "works" -- as you said elsewhere, we're a very black-or-white society, and it's kind of hard to wrap my brain around it since I haven't experienced it -- but I've filed it in my brain as, "None of your damn business. They don't fuss about your lovelife, you don't fuss about theirs."

folks do appreciate decent characterisation. It's the difference between Harlequin and gritty realism.

True. But, I'm flexible, and willing to read some less than decent fic, if it attracts me. Personally, I like my gritty realism "softened" styles -- a modicum of Harlequin, if you will.

I hope everything we write has at least a little significance beyond that.

But different writers have different ideals. For me, I'm happy just to tell a decent story; trying to have 'significance' would feel pretentious. Other writers have other reactions. I feel that there are a lot of "right" ways to approach writing, and not too many "wrong" ones (although there are some).
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As a straight woman, I honestly don't care if a male or female is straight, gay, or bi, and I approach my reading the same way.

Fair enough. I didn't mean to come off all angry, actually. I was just typing real fast at work.

I admit I'm a bit curious about how bi "works"

LOL! So would I, and I am! I can only speak for myself, you know? I remember being extremely confused about other girls' reactions to men when I was a teen. Friends would be all "he's gorgeous!" or "what a fantastic body" and I just couldn't see it. But I didn't think I was gay, because I didn't get that reaction to women either.

I'm older now and I understand the physical qualities that are generally considered attractive, so I can appreciate the aesthetic of great pecs or nice breasts or whatever. But that's no more sexual for me than viewing Michaelangelo's David. Physicality doesn't sexually attract me at all until I can attach a personality to the body. And when I fall for the personality, whether it be fictional or no, the sexual attractiveness just kinda falls into place.

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Friends would be all "he's gorgeous!" or "what a fantastic body" and I just couldn't see it. But I didn't think I was gay, because I didn't get that reaction to women either.

Same here, sorta. Looking at the overall package just did nothing for me, until I was well into my 20's (and still doesn't do a lot). I remember once when my friends were talking about Chuck Connors in 'The Rifleman'; I was far more enthusiastic about the big black horse he rode. (My friends walked away in disgust.)

I can appreciate the aesthetic of great pecs or nice breasts or whatever. But that's no more sexual for me than viewing Michaelangelo's David. Physicality doesn't sexually attract me at all until I can attach a personality to the body. And when I fall for the personality, whether it be fictional or no, the sexual attractiveness just kinda falls into place.

Wheeee! Finally, someone who looks at visuals the way I do. I like to look at the pretty pics, but I don't seem to have the "squee factor" that other fans bring to it. Those memes about, "Name five actors you'd shag" -- I can't. I'd shag such-and-such character (maybe), but the actor is not the character.

And when I fall for the personality, whether it be fictional or no, the sexual attractiveness just kinda falls into place.

Makes perfect sense to me.
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My default position for TS is a cheerfully bisexual Blair and an openly gay or closetedly gay Jim. It just suits my vision of the characters. Unless it doesn't suit my story...

It's true that no-one wanders around saying 'Hi, I'm Mab and I'm straight/gay/lesbian/TV/TS' but I do see where the OP is coming from. In a PWP, what does it matter, but a medium-long story or canon based first time, it might be worth considering the existence of all those canon women.

I wonder if the lack of bi-ness which Logophilos perceives also ties into the fairly obvious misogyny that creeps into some slash. 'I'm in ur canon, screwing up ur slashy OTP'.So instead of the guys being bi, the woman is so often a bitch or a psychonutter, and when the guys fall into bed together they've never had sex this fulfilling before :-(. There's rather a lot of that in TS, especially earlier stories.

Plus, there's the pov of the OP's therapist, which seems to be quite common. I watch one gay issues comm, and there's sometimes comment indicating some members of the gay community to be fairly ambivalent about bisexuality, as well. A 'bisexuality is for people who can't make up their minds' idea, and we're very much a culture for our dualities and all or nothing assumptions, and we don't like the grey areas.

/rambling on. Bet you're sorry you posted that link and comment now. :-)

My default position for TS is a cheerfully bisexual Blair and an openly gay or closetedly gay Jim.

I'm with you on Blair. I tend to think of Jim as bi, too, though, because if he's gay, where does Carolyn fit in? Not to mention all the other canon BOTWs. Jim is unusually self-aware for a man, which supports the notion that he's questioned his sexuality but it also gives me a problem with the idea that Carolyn was a last-ditch try to be straight or something. Okay, they didn't have a great marriage, but even so...

there's sometimes comment indicating some members of the gay community to be fairly ambivalent about bisexuality, as well

Yes, that's very true. If you're bi in the gay community, a lot of people assume you don't really belong there. Bloody unfair. And there are a lot of silly and hurtful prejudices about bisexual people. Like the presumption of promiscuity.

Bet you're sorry you posted that link and comment now. :-)

Nope. Not sorry at all :-)

In RL most of my gay friends don't believe in bi. In fiction I don't care. If the writer makes the premise acceptable I am down with whatever; vampires, spirit animals, Jim in drag, you put pen to it well enough and I believe!

Story h0r, yepper ; )

In RL most of my gay friends don't believe in bi.

You know that really sucks, right?

Story h0r, yepper ; )

LOL! Yeah, good to know :-)

Hmm... I love the idea of loving the person, but my gay friends were pretty dismissive of a person being bi. Admittedly, I have not discussed it with anybody recently and the two guys I have had extended conversations with about sexual orientation were my own age(read old, in our fifties), out and fiercely proud - but they both (in separate discussions) were very dismissive of the concept of bi-sexuality. Steve said 'oh, please' and Mike's response was that if someone was bi - they just really weren't completely out of the closet yet. But we are all of an age and grew up in times where to be openly gay was an act of intense personal bravery. Maybe that is the root of their being a tad judgmental?

Mike's response was that if someone was bi - they just really weren't completely out of the closet yet.

Yes, that's typical. So riddle me this: a person who is "out" as bisexual is subject to homophobia from the straight community and crap like that from the gay community. So who the hell would claim to be bi if it wasn't freaking true???

Part of the problem is that coming out to yourself is still a huge deal. A lot of gay men will say they were born gay, and have never been anything else. They've always known it. Good for them - but because that's their experience it doesn't mean it's everyone's. For women especially sexuality is more complex than that. And it can change over time. And sometimes there's choice involved. Gays who insist there's no such thing as bisexuality are basically taking the same attitude as fundies who thing gay can be cured. It's bloody minded prejudice and I've got no patience with it.

I'm bisexual, by nature, lesbian by choice. I'm attracted to both sexes. I identify as lesbian because I never want another man in my life (and because bi women just aren't welcome among lesbians) but that doesn't stop me perving over Jensen and Jared every time a new ep of Supernatural comes online!

((hugs))

I hear you and I am so glad you are attracted to both sexes! That has to make life twice as interesting ; )

Let's make it a club, Morgan! (-;

I really enjoy my time in feminist and lesbian circles, but try to explain there why writing TS fanfic, gen or slash, is so much fun... I even thought of myself as weird; why the sudden interest in *men*? You definition 'bisexual by nature, lesbian by choice' totally nails it. Dogma from either side is just wrong, and I'm just glad there are many open-minded folks in fandom.

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