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Thoughts on THAT exchange in SPN 4.14
Why is it these boys can't have an honest conversation when they're both sober and not under some magical influence? Their exchange in 4.14 had the feel of a set-piece, it didn't fit the context very well. But it was stuff that needed to be said, on both sides.
Here's a recap. What Dean said to Sam was:
I don't know when it happened. Maybe when I was in Hell. Maybe when I was staring right at you. But the Sam I knew, he's gone. And it's not the demon blood or the psychic crap. It's the little stuff. The lies, the secrets. [snipped.] You're hiding things from me. What else aren't you telling me? [snipped] We used to be in this together. We used to have each other's backs.
There's very little in there that we didn't already know. Sam has changed and he has been hiding things from Dean. But Dean thinks the change is recent and that's where he's wrong. And if he could stop and really think about it, Dean would probably remember.
Hiding things is nothing new for Sam: he's been doing it ever since he decided to go to college. We don't know how much of that he hid from Dean, but I'm betting he did everything he could to keep it to himself, because Dean would have told their father. Even if we assume that Sam shared his plans with Dean, as far back as season one Sam made it clear that he was holding things back from Dean:
Look...you're my brother and I'd die for you, but there are some things I need to keep to myself. (Sam in Bloody Mary)
What has changed in this scenario is that Dean has, in effect, stepped into John's role: he's decided what is best for Sam, and doesn't like that Sam has a different opinion.
Sam has changed in other ways, but the biggest part of his transformation is nothing to do with demon blood: it's his reaction to Dean's deal. Sam in seasons one and two was afraid of his psychic abilities. He actively resisted using the power he had. He wanted to be "normal". After Azazel confirmed that Sam was "special" and that all the horrible things that have happened to Sam's loved ones were somehow connected to his specialness, he was terrified he was destined to turn into something evil, something to be hunted. There was, objectively, very little to justify Sam's fear, but Sam wasn't being objective.
Sam took his resistance to its logical conclusion at the end of season two: he refused to kill Jake, rejected Azazel's plans for him. And so he died.
And then he came back to life.
And then he was smacked in the face with what trying to do the right thing had bought for him. His moment of mercy killed Dean. Being good sent Dean to Hell.
Let's not forget, it was Dean who started lying and keeping secrets at this point. He told Sam that Bobby had patched him up. He insisted Bobby not tell Sam the truth. And when Sam figured it out anyway, Dean still didn't reveal the terms of his deal until he was forced to. And Dean still has not told Sam what Azazel said to him at the Devil's Gate. I'm going to quote all of it, because it's a pretty big damn secret that Dean is still keeping from Sam:
Dean...I got to thank you. You see, demons can't resurrect people unless a deal is made. I know, red tape - it'll make you nuts. [Snipped.] Tell me - have you ever heard the expression, "If a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is?" And you never wondered why? I'm surprised at you. I mean...you saw what your brother just did to Jake, right? That was pretty cold, wasn't it? How certain are you that what you brought back, is 100% pure Sam? You of all people should know, that what's dead, should stay dead.
Dean, the self-righteous dick, needs to take a good look at himself before he condemns Sam for keeping secrets. There's more, of course. We know there's at least one big reveal still to come, one big secret Sam is still keeping. I sure hope it'll live up to the hype.
It's not just the secrets, though, is it? Sam has changed in other ways. He's more willing to be ruthless now, less worried about killing those who are technically human. But that change, too, goes back to Dean's deal. Had Sam killed Jake, Dean wouldn't have needed to make that deal. He's given up on his dream of a normal life and that, too, can be laid at Dean's door: Sam lost what was left of his innocence in the last year of Dean's life, largely because he was willing to do anything to break that deal.
So what about what Sam said to Dean?
You want to know why I didn't tell you about Ruby, and how we're hunting down Lilith? Because you're too weak to go after her, Dean. You're holding me back. I'm a better hunter than you are. Stronger, smarter. I can take out demons you're too scared to go near. You're too busy sitting around feeling sorry for yourself. Whining about all the souls you tortured in Hell. Boo Hoo. You're not standing in my way any more.
I have to say, I think Sam is absolutely right about most of this. Sam hasn't told Dean what he's up to with Ruby because Dean made it abundantly clear he didn't approve. Not because he sees some danger to Sam, but on principle, because a) an angel told him so and b) Ruby's a demon. Sam, who has come to judge Ruby by her actions instead of by her nature, brushes aside b) as irrelevant and as for a)...well, the angels went into the box marked "not on our side" the moment Uriel threatened to send Dean back to Hell. So why would Sam care what they think?
Everything Sam said to Dean in Metamorphosis is true: he has found a way to kill (or at least eliminate) demons without killing their host bodies. It's better than using Ruby's knife, and, apparently, better than the old Latin-and-Holy-Water routine (I'm assuming this since in S3 most of the demons they exorcised left a dead body behind them; clearly Sam's psychic method has a better survival rate). Dean has a problem with it only because it's a psychic thing, and that scares him. Oh, and because Castiel said so.
There have been hints (well, anvils), that there's more to Sam's psychic ability than we've yet seen. He's doing something to recharge his psychic batteries, so to speak. We also saw his eyes turn demon-black when he exorcised Samhain, which likely doesn't bode well. Maybe when we find out what the big secret is, it will be clearer that Sam is on the wrong path, but right now with the information we - and, more importantly, Dean - have, I don't see anything wrong with what he's doing.
Sam isn't calling Dean weak, period. Rather, he says Dean is too weak to go after Lilith. That's specific, not general, and it's also no more than true. Dean's greatest fear right now isn't losing Sam, it's going back to Hell. And Lilith's the one who sent him there. In Yellow Fever it was Dean's fear of Lilith that almost killed him. Moreover, Dean has actively opposed including Ruby in their plans ever since she showed up in season 3, and it's clear that Sam thinks Ruby is an important part of the Lilith-hunting team.
The next thing he says is "You're holding me back." Again, implicit in that is "...from hunting Lilith." And, again, it's simply true if taken in that context. Dean has done everything he can to prevent Sam from going after Lilith directly...and he did that before he went to Hell, too.
The next part is more difficult to justify. Sam says he's a better hunter than Dean. Well, that's not really true: the boys are about equal, I think. Dean has more experience, but there are things Sam is better at (contrast, for example, Dean's flubbed exorcism in Sin City with Sam's super-off-the-cuff exorcism in Jus In Bello). I can see how Sam may have begun to develop the idea that he's the better hunter: since Dean's emotional tailspin after John's death, Sam took on the leadership role within their partnership and, again, through the first half of season 3 when Dean was behaving as if he didn't care he was going to Hell, the push to hunt was coming from Sam. So, yeah, though I don't agree that he's a better hunter than Dean, I can see where he's coming from with that statement.
But then, I think when he says "I'm a better hunter..." it's again, in the context of this one, specific hunt. Because Lilith has become Sam's obsession, every bit as much as Azazel was John's. I've said before that Sam is a lot like his daddy; here's another way in which he shows it. When he tells Dean he's better, stronger and smarter than he is, Sam immediately follows it up with "I can take out demons you're too scared to go near." It puts his words back in context: he means he's a better demon hunter than Dean is...and he's not wrong about that. Even without the psychic thing, from Phantom Traveler onwards it's always been Sam who took the lead against the demons.
Again, there's that reference to Dean's fear. I'm guessing Sam is thinking of Alastair when he says that, and it's certainly true that Alastair scared the shit out of Dean. Although it wasn't Sam who took out Alastair in the end, so perhaps the reference is to Samhain. Or both: perhaps Sam is saying that since he did take out Samhain, he believes he could have defeated Alastair too.
Finally, there's the mocking of Dean's emo-whining about Hell. I've got to tell you, I've been dying for someone to say that to Dean, because it's so freaking true. Yeah, I get it: Dean is tortured by what he did. But he's out of Hell now and he's in the middle of a goddamned war. He needs to shit or get off the pot, to use the crude cliche. In other words, if he can't get over it and do his job, fight this war, then he needs to step aside for someone who can. That's what Sam is saying, and he's 100% right. I've become so sick of Dean's storyline this season I can only echo Sam: Boo Hoo.
The truth hurts, but pain also precipitates healing.
The most disappointing thing about this episode was the way they both denied the exchange at the end. At the end of Asylum they did something similar: Sam apologised, claiming he hadn't meant it, but you could see that Dean knew better: Dean understood that there was truth at the heart of what Sam had said to him, even if the venom in the words wasn't meant.
But here, they both deny their words, both agree to put it down to the siren's spell. Idiots! They both need to admit that the other has a point. Maybe then they can get on with being brothers again.
I may not be able to respond to comments for a day or two. Also, PLEASE no spoilers in comments for episodes after this one. Not even vague ones.
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From the moral perspective...I don't know. Kriple & Co are so focussed on their beloved Mary-Sue, Dean, we've been given very little insight into what Sam's goal actually is. If he's purely motivated by revenge, which he's implied on the few occasions he's been allowed to talk about it, then yeah, there's a moral issue there. But I'd like to think his vengeance, like John's, is a means to an end: kill Lilith and the worst of the bad stuff goes away. My impression from the flashbacks we got was that Sam knows he's going down a bad road and has decided that the end justifies the means, even if the means is to sacrifice himself: it's no different, really, from the deal Dean made for him. (Except it is, because Dean's motives were selfish and Sam has at least half an eye on the big picture.)
So far, I'm firmly on Sam's "side". He's right about Dean: Dean is weak, and he is holding Sam back from his goal. And Dean has failed to make a convincing case for why Sam should stop. "Because God says so" is not a case, it's nonsense. Dean could make that case, if he chose he could make Sam understand. But he's too busy being all emo about Hell to freaking try.
...I guess you caught me on a bad day. Sorry for the rant :-)
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Hmmm, I’m not sure I’d agree with that. With regard to his leaving for Stanford (which was the context within which I used the term) I’m not sure we can assume his motives were entirely altruistic unless we theorise that he went there for the purpose of doing pro bono work for the downtrodden masses or because he thought John and Dean would be better off without him. I think it’s much more likely that 18-year-old Sam went to college because that’s what he wanted to do – and, as I said above, whether or not he saw it as such, there’s nothing wrong with that.
As to his present motive... well, we really don’t know what it is. The revenge scenario makes little sense because it wasn’t Lilith who wrecked Sam’s life and it wasn’t Sam that she sent to Hell, so what’s he getting revenge for? We have the possibility that he’s deluding himself that if he kills Lilith and stops her destroying the Seals then everything will be OK and no other Demon will rise to take her place, but for all we know at the moment Ruby may have convinced him that the only way to ensure peace is for him to embrace his Demon side and rule with her in Hell.
With regard to Dean - yes he is holding Sam back but, whilst he’s certainly not going about it in a very constructive way (you’d think he’d know Sam better by now), until we know the truth about Ruby, the Powers and Sam’s endgame we won’t know whether he’s right to try. I do take issue, though, with Sam’s accusations that Dean’s perpetually wallowing in the Hell stuff. If Sam didn’t want to hear about it, why did he ask?
Hell, I just want to be able to like both brothers – and just at the moment I can see great potential for not liking either of them very much.
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No, I agree that Sam leaving for Stanford was essentially selfish (and like you, I don't see anything wrong with that), but why mention it if you're not drawing some parallel to the present situation? I'm not sure what I'm missing here...?
The revenge scenario makes little sense because it wasn’t Lilith who wrecked Sam’s life and it wasn’t Sam that she sent to Hell, so what’s he getting revenge for?
For what she did to Dean, and, by extension, for what she did to Sam through Dean. It doesn't have to be rational or logical. Sam's initial target was Azazel and he was denied that revenge by Dean. So he needed a new target and Dean's deal handed him one. It was the Crossroads Demon first, and when shooting her didn't help it became whomever held Dean's contract. And when Dean died, it was predictable that Sam would essentially become...not John Winchester exactly, but rather the distorted image of John that Sam always saw: obsessed and driven by revenge to the exclusion of all else.
We saw him try to sell his own soul, and have it turned down. I think that, when he agreed to do this Ruby's way, Sam knew damn well he was essentially damning himself - just slower. It's what he wanted. Getting Dean back couldn't change that any more than Dean saying "I don't deserve to go to Hell" could break his deal.
I do take issue, though, with Sam’s accusations that Dean’s perpetually wallowing in the Hell stuff. If Sam didn’t want to hear about it, why did he ask?
If you assume that the only times it's been mentioned between them are the moments we've seen on screen, well, yeah, maybe Sam's being unreasonable (but why assume that?). And I do think that Dean's entitled to a wee bit of angst over it all (but he was a dick before he went to Hell; he doesn't get a free pass from me because of that). But Sam's frustrated with Dean's unwillingness to go straight for the target (Lilith) and he sees Dean's experience as a big part of what's holding them both back.
There are 66 seals and, supposedly, Dean was saved by Castiel to stop Lilith breaking them. If she breaks the last seal, Hell literally comes to Earth. Since Dean knows what Hell is like, he ought to be gung-ho to stop that. But he isn't. Instead he's bouncing from job to job just like they always have, while Sam is focussed on the war. If Dean had an alternate plan, Sam might fall in with it, but there's no sign of a plan...and there won't be because fundamentally Dean isn't a leader. He's a follower. And Sam, who is a natural leader, is going to move forward with, or without his brother.
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I mentioned the Stamford decision because I've seen it cited as being a proof positive that Sam hasn't changed since pre-Season 1 and that his current behaviour is simply another demonstration a long-standing behavioural traits. I don't necessarily agree with this because the stakes are so much higher now and I hope that we discover that someone or something has been working on him.
On the revenge front, TBH I'm just not seeing the kind of devotion that would mean he'd be prepared to put the world at risk. Likewise, with regard to "talking about Hell" I think we have to assume that Dean has been reticent or they wouldn't have needed to show Sam pressing him for details. Personally speaking I think the whole "Boo Hoo" stuff was just a cheap short-cut by the writers to make Dean appear more reasonable than Sam - in the same way that the irrational reference to Ruby's knife in the parallel argument in "Metamorphosis" was used to undermine Dean's position.
Frankly I don't really care which brother is right - because they're both being pretty unbearable towards the other at the moment - I just want what's going on between them to make sense and it isn't. I don't think we'll be able to work it out until we get a final answer on where Ruby stands and what she's after.
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But...
But...but...that doesn't make sense at all! Okay. Sam left his family, left the family business, to go to Stanford. No argument. In season one he almost left again (Scarecrow) and in season two he did leave (Hunted). If Sam hasn't changed, why hasn't he left Dean already? The guy is being an ass: I would have left him four episodes back. In spite of everything, Sam is still with Dean. Oh, sure, he's taking the odd time-out with Ruby, but he comes right back every damn time. That is not a long-standing trait: that's new.
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And I"m going to add that I think Sam's been clinically depressed since Dean died and that hasn't changed because of the angels/Dean's attitude towards him from Metamorphosis on.
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Hm. I don't know enough to give a serious diagnosis but yes, I can see that's a possibility. Certainly there are aspects of Sam's behaviour which are self-destructive. And I agree, if that's the case then Dean's attitude and the blows his faith have taken are not going to help matters.
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We certainly had at least 2 seasons of Sam going on and on about his demon blood and what that made him -- so I'm giving Dean some latitude over his depression about his time in Hell. I think you should to. This went against every view he had of himself. Dean doesn't think much of himself, but being a person who tries to save lives is at his core. Hell showed him that's not necessarily true. We know, rationally, Hell will change everyone and you can't judge yourself by that, but Dean no longer knows who he is. How can he view himself as a good person, when he "enjoyed" torturing people? He doesn't know who he is anymore.
I think the big fear is not Sam going evil, it's Sam thinking he's more powerful than everyone else. Sam is a proud person - and Pride can corrupt. I think the more he uses his power, the more he feels "superior" to Dean and others. He's the only one who can save humanity. I think this is the dark slope he's heading.
Hey, he's always been told he was smarter and better than everyone. Dean's used that phrase on him since the beginning. In Asylum he states that Dean is weak. This has nothing to do with Lilith. I think this is a hidden belief. He loves Dean, but .. Dean was Daddy's good little soldier who couldn't think for himself. Sam, meanwhile was able to get his scholarship, on his own, and leave the family. He's a driven man. We know he will do whatever it takes - if he believes in the cause strong enough.
First the cause was getting a "Normal" life, then it was to avenge Jess' murder. Now it's destroying Lilith. So he is going at it with all barrel's blazing. But the kicker this time, is his power (and whatever the other secret is). How can you stay "humble" and "normal" when you have a power no one else has. You can destroy evil!! Not even the angels can do what Sam can! Powerful stuff. godlike stuff???
I think this power has started to rip away the human(ness) that is Sam. I think this will encompass more than just going after Lilith. So what, he's going to stop using his power and revert back to "just Sam" after he destroys her??? Don't think so, not unless he realizes what this power is doing to him.
So it's not demonSam, but IcansavehumanitySam we need to worry about.
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Gee, what gave it away? No, I don't like Dean. He's a dick. But up until this season I was willing to cut him some slack. I'm not any more. I don't think he deserves it.
How can he view himself as a good person, when he "enjoyed" torturing people?
I don't know. He seemed to cope okay with torturing Meg. Is it somehow worse that he did it in Hell? By my lights, what he did in Hell, under some serious duress, is excusable; what he did before that, of his own free will, is much less so.
My whole point is Hell didn't change Dean: it just drew out facets of his personality which were already there.
I think this power has started to rip away the human(ness) that is Sam.
Yes, I agree. But I think Sam knows this, and has pretty much decided it's a price worth paying. To that extent Dean is right: the old Sam is gone. Oh, yes, Sam has pride and there's danger in that. When he started this, he didn't plan on surviving it so it didn't matter if he turned into something evil. Now maybe it does.
The reason I'm so pissed with Dean is his refusal to acknowledge that most of the things he's complaining about are his fault. He started this, not Sam. He started keeping secrets, he lied to Sam, he made that deal and knew damn well what it would do to Sam because John did it to him. Dean's the one who doesn't have Sam's back because he'd rather listen to an angel than to his brother. Everything Dean threw in Sam's face in that scene is true of Dean just as much as Sam.
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Sam has always had secrets, from the very beginning, when he applied to Stanford. Like he said in Bloody Mary.. he loves Dean, but there's some things he needs to keep to himself. I'm not saying Sam wasn't justified in his secrets, but this is not a DEAN thing -- it's part of Sam's make-up. His rebellion.
Yes, Dean selling his soul, just like John and some of the consequences are his fault. He truly thought, though that Sam would be able to carry on without him. Once again, Dean thinks Sam is stronger and would be able to move through the grief. It wasn't until after he made the deal that he realized he was wrong in that assumption and Sam was going to be devastated by his death. This is also why he did not want to tell Sam about his time in hell, why pack on the guilt?
As for listening to angels, the only thing he is listening to is the threat toward Sam -- and that he is trying to do something about. That's why he reacts when Sam uses his powers -- once again he's in the middle between two opposing forces. Like he was growing up -- between John and Sam - now he's between the angels and Sam. And in both instances, he tries to protect Sam.
But hey, if you don't like the character, nothing I can say will change your thoughts.
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My point is Dean enjoyed torturing Meg. That she was a demon makes a difference in terms of whether his action is morally justified but it makes no difference at all in terms of whether or not Dean is capable of torture.
My point is he's talking about what he did in Hell as if he'd never done anything like that before. And he's fooling himself if he thinks that's true.
As for listening to angels, the only thing he is listening to is the threat toward Sam -- and that he is trying to do something about.
That's just my problem. Dean is not trying to do something about that threat.
In the past, whenever anyone - Meg, Azazel, Gordon Walker - has threatened his family, Dean has always hit back. He either took them out himself or at least showed that he was willing to.
If the way he's treating Sam is about the angel's threat, why isn't he looking for ways to take them out? Or at least Uriel? Or, if that's not feasible, why isn't he looking for ways to hide from them, or protect against them? (Especially after the Anna incident, which showed those ways do exist.)
He's doing none of those things. Instead, he's treating Sam like the enemy. That's not consistent with the way Dean reacts to a threat against someone he loves.
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We also saw his eyes turn demon-black when he exorcised Samhain, which likely doesn't bode well.
His eyes don't actually turn black. If you look closely you can see it's just the lightning. That's probably done on purpose to keep the viewers guessing did they or did they not turn black. :)
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I have looked closely, very closely, and while it's ambiguous it's not just lighting. There's definitely some CGI on Jared's eyes in that scene. Maybe it was meant as a keep-'em-guessing thing and not literal, but it's there just the same.
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Well, I stay away from dean_sam because of all the spoilers. But they're right...and wrong.
Jared wasn't wearing the black contacts they use for demons, like he did in BUABS. Those are contact lenses; if you look real close you can see the whites of the eyes at the very edges.
What they did with the Samhain scene was CGI. It's subtle, which is why I agree it might be meant as a tease and Sam's eyes didn't really change. But if you study it real close in hi-def you can see that it's not just the lighting. In one shot there is a visible change.
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Dean has a problem with it only because it's a psychic thing, and that scares him. Oh, and because Castiel said so.
I don't think Dean has a problem with it simply because an angel said 'It's bad!' (why would he care for an angels opinion?), but because they freaking threatened to kill Sam, if he didn't stop using his powers! ('If you won't stop him, we will.') I think that's enough to take their 'opinion' seriously.
Of course I also think Dean finds having demon powers monstrous and freakish, something that's disgusting and hideous. I guess for him it was kinda like waking up one morning and finding out his brother is actually a cockroach and not a human being...
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I agree, it should be enough. But I don't agree that's where Dean is coming from.
If Castiel's threat were the prime motivation behind Dean wanting Sam to quit using his powers, Dean would be working on a way to eliminate that threat. That would be consistent with his past actions. Whenever anyone - Meg, Azazel, Gordon Walker - has threatened his family, Dean hits back. He either takes them out himself or at least demonstrates that he's willing to.
If it's about the angel's threat, why isn't he looking for ways to take them out? Or at least Uriel? Or, if that's not feasible, why isn't he looking for ways to hide from them, or protect against them? (Especially after the Anna incident, which showed those ways do exist.)
He's doing none of those things. Instead, he's treating Sam like the enemy.
So, no, I don't think it's about that threat to Sam at all. If we're meant to think so, then the characterisation of Dean is very inconsistent.
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But I think some things have already changed. Castiel threatened to kill Sam when he used his powers, but neither him or Uriel tried to actually do it after Sam took out Samhain (aside from a little posturing). It looks like an empty threat now.
Also Dean seems to me no longer totally against Sam using his powers (there was no big fight after Samhain), his biggest grievance now looks to be not being included in Sam's plans (with Ruby). In that regard I also think he's not generally against Ruby anymore, because she's a DEMON, but it's because basically she took his place as Sam's most trusted person (or at least it seems so to Dean). He's jealous of her.
But I disagree on him treating Sam like the enemy. That would have meant trying to kill him. Which I'm sure he would have tried had it been any other person with demon powers and not a relative of his he cares about. He's even said so.
Then again I think the show's writers have done a crappy job of portraying someone with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I rolled my eyes at the confession beside the car scene as well. That reveal could have been executed so much more subtle and BETTER.
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At the end, Sam and Dean didn't want to fight anymore. Both knew each other were lying about it being under the siren's spell (see when they interviewed the first victim. he knew what he was doing/saying but he couldn't stop himself).
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Of course after I read this I came to the conclusion that Dean's been pretty much repeating himself since S2. He has a secret that's crushing him so he's deep in denial. Sam asks him to spill only Dean can't. Okay, maybe a little. Okay, maybe a little more. Okay here's the full on spill and it's something the audience has already guessed.
Granted it's a little more complicated than that but sometimes I think the writers rely a little too much on Jensen's manly tears to make the story work out properly.
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For me it's his goddamned hypocrisy that's so irritating. Like Dean's never lied to Sam, and never kept a secret from him.
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And meanwhile, you have Sam who can be whiny and stubborn and self-righteous and many of his flaws are more "in your face" and more likely to cause conflict with others. I like that part of Sam of course, but comparing Dean to Sam... it does feel imbalanced.
Adding to that that Dean has now been saved by angels from God for some kind of purpose... and it's hard to believe that whole "you don't deserve to be saved" bit. Of course he does. It's God.
I'd like it if the show made more of an effort to point out Dean's flaws besides the ones that are only about his crushing self-esteem because been there done that got the post card got that he's a hero, thanks Kripke. I just need to see something that puts Dean back into the 'real' category instead of a fictional trope.
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Sam's changed; well, of course! In the past two years he's died; come back; found out his brother sold his soul for him to live; did (and considered doing) a lot of things he never would have before to save Dean; failed and actually watched Dean get torn apart by hellhounds; had his brother come back emotionally scarred; found out his mother - who was made out to be a saint his whole life - was in fact the one who, albeit unwittingly, set Azazel after the family in the first place; listened to Dean tell him that he was something his brother would hunt if they didn't know each other; and found out that the angels of the God he's had faith in for a long time don't like him and won't hesitate to kill him if he stops being useful to them. OF COURSE he's changed!!! But Dean's too busy feeling betrayed by that change to think about the reasons behind it.
I actually do like Dean, or at least I did; his super-charged hypocrisy and martyr complex this season is driving me nuts. Dean's no innocent in the secret-keeping department - forget about lying about remembering Hell and not telling Sam about his death and the demon deal; once upon a time Dean didn't tell Sam that their father gave him the order to kill Sam if he couldn't be "saved". I truly despise how when Sam doesn't give Dean full disclosure he's being selfish or at risk of becoming evil but when Dean doesn't he's excused because he had the best intentions (or because Dad asked him not to and he just CAN'T go against what Dad wants).
As for the martyr complex, it might be okay if Dean was trying to overcome it but he's not. He's practically relishing the pain and guilt he feels without any regard about how witnessing this affects his brother. Now, I realize Hell was horrible for him in a way no one can imagine, but that doesn't mean that only his feelings are important. Sam hasn't been a saint, but he's always tried to be emotionally supportive; Dean doesn't seem to care about Sam's feelings beyond a few token platitudes.
I hope the boys work through this soon and that both of them acknowledge their own roles in the fracturing of their relationship, instead of making Sam grovel for daring to upset his brother and Dean graciously forgiving him...
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While I do feel bad for Dean (having someone close to you keeping secrets is always going to hurt), he should take a good look at himself before he starts accusing Sam. Funnily enough, most people seem to forget about Dean's little habit of keeping VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION from his brother. But of course, he's Dean, so fandom is willing to let that one slide. I swear, I like the guy, I do, but I think that people cut him far too much slack. While there are so many out there just waiting to criticize Sam for every little, possible mistake he might have made.
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I agree with what you say here, the Dean-emoing is killing me and putting me off watching the show. Sam emoed over himself in 3 eps in S2, but it's a current theme of Dean crying on the hood in this season. And it leads nowhere, it's simply angst for angst sake. Nobody made Dean make the deal, Sam was ready to try and take Lilith out to save him, Dean didn't let him. And now he's crying and expecting Sam to what? Feel more guilt? Is he that stupid that he can't see that Sam is half crazy from guilt and still suicidal to some degree? And Dean still expects Sam to follow his orders? Orders that totally back-fired, with Lilith and now with the Siren?
And as much as Sam has the same need for revenge that John had, Dean has the same need to control others that John had.
And Dean's done nothing but been verbally and physically abusive towards Sam this season. And why? Because Dean has a new authority; Castiel. And because Sam isn't doing what Dean tells him to do. Oh John, you taught him well.
Dean is repeating set patterns and condemning the same in Sam.
The writers have totally destroyed the Dean-character for me. Right now I just want to smack him down off his high horse. I want to smack the double-standards right out of him and ask him if he remembers how he felt when John died for him? How it felt when John aske him to kill Sam? Because whatever Ruby is, she saved Sam, she was there when he was lost. She helps him hunt down Lilith.
Sam's own father wanted him dead if he turned evil, just like Dean, as stated in Metamorphosis. "If I didn't know you..." Sam must feel rejected by everyone, except Ruby. Of course he turns to her, whatever reasons shee has, she shows faith in Sam. Something his family apparently never did, and something Sam is struggling so hard with right now.
I want to smack Sam too, for staying with Dean and taking all the abuse.
He should really have walked away at the first punch.
I found the ending interesting. sam tried to open up, like Sam does. He never forced dean to open uo, he said so in Heaven and hell, He wouldn't ask until Dean was willing to tell. Dean on the other hand said he had the right to now why Sam trusted ruby in IKWYDLS, he was entitled. And Sam did tell, even if Dean made faces at him. Sam also told Dean in metamorphosis that he had to do something, he had to redeem himself by using the powers for good purposes. And he told this after being verbally abused and called a monster.
Sam was clearly ashamed and regretful at the en of SaV, maybe even needed to sort thing out. But Dean literally turned his back on him and walked away.
I ask: who is really the selfish bastard here?